TRANSCRIPT:

SARAH: Hello, I’m Sarah Krauss and this is The Children's Arts Guild podcast.  We’re interviewing educators across the country to find out how they are implementing authenticity in their work.  

Today’s interview is with Dennis Inhulsen. Dennis is the chief learning officer at the National Art Education  Association. Before that Dennis served in many roles including as a principal and art teacher. We asked him to tell us a little bit about what he's learned over the years the power of looking at things from multiple perspectives.

Dennis, thank you for joining us.

So you started off as an educator in South East Michigan and then eventually you were recruited to be a principal. And I was wondering what that transition was like. Was it difficult? How did you navigate that?  

DENNIS: So the transition wasn’t hard. It was hard in terms of content you know, I had a lot to learn in terms of trying to develop relationships with people. You just learn more from asking questions and learning than you do from telling answers. So I was a safe person, you know? I mean, I wasn't there to have judgments about this reading program or that writing program or this or that. My role was to listen, learn, and really paraphrase back and develop consensus and create spaces where people felt like they could be wrong or make mistakes. So that was my specialty, in a sense. I was in a position where I didn't have to have all the answers. But I did have to ask a lot of questions and really build consensus decision making. 

SARAH: Did you feel like any of the experiences you had as an art teacher helped you in your role as a principal?

DENNIS: Oh, yeah,yeah, both in terms of visual thinking and visual approach, but more so and things like working with IEPs, special education,kind of things or 504’s anything legal, So when people make decisions,they often talk about data based decisions. You have to make a database decision. I support that. But I was always very big into triangulation. So what the arts do is the arts teach us that there isn't always one exact answer. It’s not always that finite right? And there are multiple approaches. In other words, we need multiple sources of data. But we also had to have some soft data like What are people's impressions, what a family life like you know. So I was able to really look at, uh, what is commonly known as the whole childhood initiative, looking at multiple perspectives before you develop decisions on a direction for a student or a child or a family. And so that's the leap from visual art in that sense. 

SARAH: I love it. Now of course, I’m biased but personally, I think we might be better off if more art teachers became principals and brought that artistic and holistic sensibility to the school leadership setting.

So here we are talking today at pretty much the one-year mark of things going remote. And I was wondering how has that changed your work? What has that been like for you?

DENNIS: Well, education is a social science. So it's a study of people together. And so it was a worry. Someone asked me. Dennis, you must be really glad you're not in buildings. Now, right? The honest truth was, you know, I kind of missed that challenge. I'm a guy that likes the smell of the lunchroom. So it was hard not to beat the halls. I'm more of a foreman, right? I like to be with people but we'll be glad to get through this and healthy and most of us, let's hope, Let's pray. But we're learning a lot too you know? We're finding out that some students learn pretty well remotely. You know, um, we're finding that some teachers are doing a great job with home school connection through this system, right? Because they really need to protect and work with kids at home virtually, Uh and we're finding new tools all the time, So there are some really good things. It's going to change things Forever.

Sarah: Forever yeah. 

DENNIS: Another thing is the resourcefulness that students have to have. Um, it's different, you know, It's like finding things around the house being creative with what's there. Knowing that art, for example, doesn't necessarily have to be expensive. You just have to have some basic stuff. The use of photography and images and video as a medium for expression is huge. Right now, I know art teachers that have gone from traditional art materials virtually to just doing it all with photography and video. Yeah, also doing a lot in terms of interpersonal relationships because when you go with photography and video, you have to sort of tell a story. And that is the cross correlation to literacy. Which is another thing I'm big on, right? As much as I'm in our guide of the core, um, it's no good if they can't read, they have to be able to. We have to help to help kids. It's not one or the other. So there's just all these little nuanced things that are coming together, Um, and some frustrating things about access and availability for all students and parents understanding. And I think in some ways, in more of a social emotional way. It develops some empathy towards parents because these teachers are working from home or even at their school, and their own Children are around. Cats are crawling on their neck and, you know, you know they got weird circumstances. But there's also a perseverance story to this, right? Like we're gonna get through this, it's gonna get better. We're gonna learn a lot. We're gonna make it better long term. You have more alternatives for kids to learn and ourselves, So there's just tons of stuff.

SARAH: There is and I think we’ll be unpacking it for quite a while. Now, we’ve been talking a lot at the Guild about authenticity and authenticity in the classroom. So I wanted to ask you. What does authenticity in the classroom mean to you?

DENNIS: Um, authenticity would mean that in my experience as a learner or as a doer that I can make a connection to it.  It has to matter to me.  

SARAH: Can you give me an example?

DENNIS: Yeah I can.  I mean, I used to maybe it's because I am, but I used to take a lot of ADHD kids to the museums in Detroit, and I was the guy that would have like four or five boys, almost always boys. But, you know, they were just as fascinated by going up and down staircases as they were about the art Oh,look at this Monet. Well, now look at these staircases. These are cool. You know, these big marble staircases, you know. So you know their decision about their response to their world and their architecture and that experience, you know, to them, the staircase is the same as a Monet. We're all going to ooh aah a Monet, and they're going like, No, that's not my That's not the context in which I live my life. I like to move and staircases let me do that, you know?

SARAH: I think that's exactly right because it's all about, figuring out what is authentically resonating with these students, how do they process the world? What is important to them? 

DENNIS: and honoring that right  

SARAH: Yes exactly. It’s our job as educators to honor that. Well thank you so much Dennis it’s been an absolute pleasure talking with you. 

DENNIS: Thank you. Take Care.  

SARAH: Ok that’s all for now. Thank you so much for listening. To find out more about The Children’s Arts Guild visit www.childrensartsguid.org . Subscribe to our newsletter to get updates on all our upcoming work for educator, for parents, and of course for children. Stay safe and be well.